Can someone help me with these attribution questions?
The coin below appears to have a lump on the O in ONE and a “ridge" running around to the left of O, but no “lump” on the left side, which would be required by the reverses of N-1 and N-39.
Is this really a lump on the O or an expanded continuation of the ridge?
Is what I am calling a ridge on the left side really a lump?
I notice, also, that there are ridges on the right side of the serifs of E in ONE, on the left of C in CENT, on both sides of the E in CENT, and also the left of N and the right of T. Are these just normal “leavings”? What are they called?
I notice a similar ridge on the profile of the head on the Obverse…same thing?
I have seen similar "ridges" on a few other large cents as well.
One last question: Can anyone say how this coin would be attributed?
I am so new at this, I really don’t know where to start, but I am hoping to find a little help here.
1848 OBV and REV.jpg
Thanks for any help.
I think you have an 1848 N36 in die state C, nice find! What you are seeing is a clashed die under the chin and behind the back middle curls on the obverse. Then on the reverse you are seeing a clashed die and crumbling over the O in ONE and right of the T in CENT. Yours is a later die state where the die is sinking around the legend and ONE CENT. The sinking die is what caused the 'halo' or 'ridge' effect around some of the legend and ONE CENT, etc.
Enjoy your cool cent!
Frog is right on. It's a N-36. He did a great job of explaining what you see on this large cent. May I ask. What book are you using to attribute your large cents?
Hello Frog and Gary - thanks so much for your help! Of course, you are correct!! I can easily see it now...It is quite exciting to me to find something like this!
The large cent books I use are Sheldon: Penny Whimsey (1958); Noyes: United States Large Cents 1816-1839; and Grellman: The Die Varieties of United States Large Cents 1840-1857. I have a lot of trouble with the latter in being able, accurately, to delineate the Date Reference Number! Any insights on doing that would also be appreciated.
Frog - your reply raises another question for me: The Grellman book I am using does not mention Die State C. Are you able to say what the characteristics of this die state are? Is this die state fairly common or relatively scarce?
To help with the DRN, there are thing to consider here. It may change some though to life of the die. From die ware (die state) and lapping. So the DRN might shift some. Bob state this in his in his book for the late date on some varieties do shift a bit more then others. But if you and get closes with the DRN and still have trouble you have to work with the other pins on the coin to get the right variety. Also keep this in mind there are 2 or 3 varieties in bobs book and I can't think of witch one that the put in the wrong number in the DRN. It's will drive you nuts till get it straight. One thing that will help you use a straight edge like on a file card to get more of accurate reading for the DRN. You know what mean by this. Like on the first one in the date. Put the card a long side the one to the end of the bust to get the number and so on. I hope this all helps. I know frog will have some thing to say about all this if I have miss any thing.
I use Grellman's book, in addition to the new Noyes books Vol 5 & 6, for late dates. I find the combination is awesome because the DRN system Grellman put together is a tremendous help and the photography by Noyes is phenomenal in identifying late date cents. However, like Pete said, don't look for exact on every number as you may only get close on some of them. However, you can really narrow it down if there are some more obvious differences. For example, if the first digit for the year has some 3's, 5's & 7's and you wrote down "8", you know it is the seven and you can eliminate the rest. However, if you wrote down "6" you can eliminate the 3's and move on the to next criteria to narrow down between the 5's and 7's rather than beat your head against the wall to decide if it was a 5 or 7.
I took another hard look at the die states to clarify. Noyes book has a state "C" because he lists "A" as a perfect obverse which has not been seen so just theoretical. Looks like Noyes "C" = Grellman "B" for obverse only. However, I do see bits of the line under the 8 on your coin, although weak. The weakness most likely due to wear, not the lapping. Based on that, I would say your coin is Grellman die state A. You can get a much better look at that line under the 8 with the coin in hand by angling it under a light and magnification. Regarding the reverse, the Noyes book has 3 reverse die states, with excellent photos, but I am not going to go into that, great books, buy them! In Noyes I would say you have Obv "B", Rev "C". That was the "C" I was referring to in my original post.
Is it a common die state you have? Well, the variety is R5- so none of them are 'fairly common' but your coin does not appear to be the scarcer Grellman die state B.
Last edited by Copper Frog; 04-18-2013 at 06:37 PM.
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